• BlueGoldAg
    1.1k
    Greg Knapp, the unsung, witty and offensive-minded quarterback specialist who got his coaching start at Sacramento State is in critical condition at John Muir Health Medical Center in Walnut Creek after suffering serious injuries Saturday afternoon from a bike crash. As of Tuesday, he was flanked in the hospital by family and friends, including his agent, Jeff Sperbeck, a Sacramento native and decades-long friend of Knapp
    Now the passing-game specialist with the New York Jets, Knapp was bicycling near his Danville home Saturday when he was struck by a motorist, according the to San Ramon Police Department and family and friends of the 1980s Sacramento State quarterback. Sperbeck texted The Bee on Tuesday, “It’s awful. Say some prayers

    Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/sports/article252901533.html#storylink=cpy
  • agalum
    294
    Bummer. Doesn’t sound good. I love biking on country roads, but stopped after a few close calls. All it takes is one passing car on their cell phone.
  • DrMike
    649
    this occurred in downtown Danville from what I’ve read. My son bikes a lot and it makes me nervous - drivers seem very distracted these days, both in town and out on the more rural routes
  • BlueGoldAg
    1.1k


    I'm an avid cyclist and I've ridden 3-4000 miles a year for the past 12 years. I ride the American River Bike Trail a lot and also the country roads around Winters, Napa and Amador County. I've had several close calls but I love the long rides in the hills too much to stop doing it because of the risk. The drivers around Winters and Napa are generally very considerate of cyclists but not so much in the Amador foothills. I've lost count of how many time some redneck in his pickup has laid on the horn and screamed at me to "get off the f...ing road."
  • MTBAggie
    90
    Urgh, this wasn't a "Bike Accident." I wish people/the news would stop using that terminology. If there is any vagueness to the story, "Well, another one of those cyclists who is always running red lights finally got in the way of a car and got hit." Rather than, "A motorist collided with a cyclist, severely injuring the cyclist." The blame is almost always placed on the cyclist, regardless of who was actually at fault.

    "Knapp was bicycling near his Danville home Saturday when he was struck by a motorist, according the to San Ramon Police Department "
  • movielover
    484
    Very sad & tragic. Injuries were described as "horrific". He leaves behind a wife and three daughters.
  • BlueGoldAg
    1.1k
    It sounds like he was wonderful man who touched the lives of many people in a special way:

    “The loss of a loved one is always a challenge but is harder when it is completely unexpected,” Jets head coach Robert Saleh said in a statement. “Charlotte, Jordan, Natalie, and Camille please accept our most sincere condolences. Greg had such an inner peace about him that people always seemed to gravitate towards. He lived life in a loving way that helped him connect with people from all walks of life in a unique way. In his short time here, I believe the people in this organization had a chance to experience that connection. Greg, thank you for all that you have shared with us, you will be missed brother.”

    “In his short time with us, Greg had an immediate influence on those who had the pleasure of spending the smallest amount of time with him,” Jets Chairman Woody Johnson said. “His legacy is not only working with some of the brightest quarterbacks the league has ever seen, but the countless others across this world he has had an indelibly positive influence on.”

    More here:http://www.cnn.com/2021/07/22/us/greg-knapp-new-york-jets-assistant-coach-dies-spt/index.html
  • MTBAggie
    90
    Terrible news. I hope the police can determine the cause of the accident. People around me wonder why I get so angry about motorists who don't follow the rules, but lose their mind when cyclists roll stop signs. It also goes back to defaulting to blaming cyclists by calling this a bike accident. (I'm not trying to pick on BGA, just irritated that every news outlet copied the same story and called this a bike/cycling accident). If a car hits a pedestrian in a crosswalk, nobody would consider that a pedestrian accident. Anyway, having friends who have been hit by cars with varying levels of injuries, it gets me pretty angry.

    "The teenage driver of the vehicle was reportedly texting at the time of the accident, CBS2’s Otis Livingston reported Thursday."

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/07/22/agent-jets-assistant-coach-greg-knapp-dies-from-injuries-following-bike-accident-last-week-in-california/

    There is no good outcome in these situations. Putting a kid in jail for life isn't appropriate, but letting a kid who made a mistake off the hook also isn't right. These situations suck, but they are easily preventable. Except as I ride my bike around town through traffic, it's mind-blowing how many people are staring at their phones.
  • 72Aggie
    300
    I am at best a casual bike rider, and it has been a long time since I have even done that with any consistency, but I made it a habit to not go through an intersection if there was a car there until the driver and I made eye contact. (And to my annoyance and my wife's persistence, if I am going on downtown streets I wear a bright orange or lime green vest. I'm a big boy and it's hard to miss me, ...bit it's even harder in day-glo clothing.)
  • BlueGoldAg
    1.1k
    It also goes back to defaulting to blaming cyclists by calling this a bike accident. (I'm not trying to pick on BGA, just irritated that every news outlet copied the same story and called this a bike/cycling accident). If a car hits a pedestrian in a crosswalk, nobody would consider that a pedestrian accident. Anyway, having friends who have been hit by cars with varying levels of injuries, it gets me pretty angry.MTBAggie

    You are preaching to the choir with me, MTBAggie, and I do understand your point of view on this. You're making a good point and I get it.

    Cyclists are increasing being killed by drivers nationwide. One of the reasons that this keeps happening is because drivers who hit cyclists are often not held to the same standard for their actions as they generally are in fatal automobile accidents. Cycling advocacy groups have been sounding the alarm about this for years but little has changed and cyclists' deaths continue to climb. There was a time when drunk drivers got off easy until the outrage of MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) changed the consciousness of the majority of Americans and the legal system with their unrelenting pursuit of justice. The same thing needs to happen for cyclists as well.

    I've had close calls on roads that are clearly marked "Bike Route" and "Bicycles - Share the Road." Just yesterday, I was nearly hit by a driver in a hurray in a pickup while I was riding through Old Town Sacramento on my way to the American River Bike Trail. I yelled at him and was able to avoid bing hit and, of course, he just looked away. It's maddening but the best we cyclists can do is to ride defensively and never assume that drivers see us and, even if they do clearly see us, never assume that they are going to give us the safe space they would give another car.
  • movielover
    484
    So, he walks or a few years in Club Fed + probation?
  • MTBAggie
    90
    It all depends. I'd guess with the high profile of the person this kid killed makes it different. There are plenty of examples of slaps on the wrist.
  • zythe
    102
    As a cyclist, this sucks. There are few things that feel better than a long ride on a weekend. I can’t tell you how many entitled motorists I come across on those rides, it’s pathetic.
  • movielover
    484
    I can understand. There are also "entitled bicyclists". I gave a polite toot to a bicyclist well outside the bike lane in the same area, and he flipped me an aggressive "bird".

    My take is killing someone because of alcohol or a cell phone is quite different than being blinded by the sun or lost in a blind spot. And the parents skate bc he's 18?
  • BlueGoldAg
    1.1k
    Yes, there are cyclists who do stupid things and, when they do, they help promote the unfounded belief that cyclists are the main problem and don't belong on the roadways. I never flip off a motorist no matter what. Given the extreme anger I've encountered on occasion from road raging drivers, flipping them the bird could get me killed in this day and age.

    Outside magazine has been collecting data and writing articles about the increase in cycling fatalities caused by drivers. In fatal crashes between 2015 and 2019, 9% were caused by drivers speeding, 16% by drunk driving and 20% were hit and run and that number is increasing.

    In 2020, 697 cyclists were killed by drivers and 26.3% were hit and run. There aren't any numbers for "distracted driving" but you can only imagine. Outside reports that 25% of Americans admit to multitasking while driving.

    Outside magazine also cites and example of how the justice system favors drivers who kill cyclists: 132 cyclists were killed by drivers between 1971 and 2019 in the Washington D.C. area. 87% of the drivers were not charged and, of the 13% charged, only 8% served any time.

    I have always accepted a certain amount of risk in the activities that I love. I was involved in technical rock climbing and mountain biking for 45 years before gradually becoming an avid road cyclist as I've grown older. I love the solitude and beauty of long rides in the hills and mountains. I also love the sustained effort and rhythm of a challenging climb and the thrill and focus of a fast descent. It brings me joy and a sense of accomplishment and, for that, I choose to continue doing it and accept the risk.

    Lots of data here: https://www.outsideonline.com/2409749/outside-cycling-deaths-2020/

    And more data here: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/what-we-learned-tracking-cycling-deaths-year/
  • MTBAggie
    90
    You are the problem. The fact that you say there are entitled cyclists is the exact problem. You are why people don't care about a entire group of human beings. That you think entitlement is specific to cyclists is the problem. Entitlement is a people problem. But you see it as a problem with people who you deem to be "entitled" to be on your roads.

    Don't ever honk at a cyclist. It isn't polite. Let me blow an air horn in your ear and see how you like it. Pass when it's safe. It isn't the job of the person in front of you to yield the road. It's your job to wait patiently and pass safely.

    Edit - sorry, but this issue is a huge trigger for me. When someone sees a cyclist who is trying to take the lane, or be seen so they don't get run over, they're seen as "entitled." If we hug the curb, motorists blow by us with no respect. How do cyclists share the road safely and not get killed?
  • fugawe09
    171
    There's what's legal and there's what's courteous and so often I think safety is driven by courtesy and predictability more so than legality. In my area we have some amazing long distance bike trails that have periodic gaps in the system that dump onto rural (but quickly suburbanizing) roads. For me as a motorist, yeah it is annoying to get stuck behind a bike doing 25 in a 55 the same way it is to get stuck behind farm equipment but it's life and I try to do my part of the courtesy equation by keeping a safe distance. The most stressful position as a driver is being the first car behind a bike on country road with traffic stacked up behind. I'm trying to keep space from the cyclist ahead of me, I'm watching the car behind me that is tailgating me hard blasting me with high beams and I'm watching the guy 5 cars back who's going to try to pass all of us but doesn't see the oncoming traffic around the curve. Where it becomes frustrating is when the courtesy is not reciprocated, for example when a cyclist holding back a line of cars does not take advantage of a turnout to let traffic pass like tractors typically do. Or worse yet, when there is a marked/striped bike lane but a cyclist elects to take the vehicle lane or a group of cyclists decides to take multiple lanes. Legal but not the way to make friends. I say that predictability is key. If there's no bike lane, go ahead and take the lane, but use hand signals, obey signage, and pull onto turnouts where possible to let traffic pass. Hugging the white line puts me in guessing mode of not knowing if you're trying to get me to pass, you're getting ready to pull over to the right, or you're swinging wide to make a sweeping left turn. I tend to take a more wait and see approach to driving, but that doesn't mean the driver behind me does and as much as don't want to hit you I also don't want to end up in a pileup with him either.
  • MTBAggie
    90
    The white line isn't necessarily a bike lane. That is a line for motorists to know where the edge of the road is, not for a place for cyclists to ride their bikes. Especially when it's filled with dirt, debris, glass and other objects that may cause accidents for cyclists. I hear you regarding cyclists not pulling over like tractors. But, we've all been stuck behind school busses, tractors, RVs etc. It doesn't mean we physically want to kill those people.

    If you want to have the courteous and legal argument with me, please come ride bikes with me and see how courteous, predictable and law abiding motorists are.

    The driver in the car behind you is the problem, not the tractor, RV, cyclist, horse, pedestrian, you name it in front of you.
  • MTBAggie
    90
    Also, specifically, what road are you on where the speed limit is 55, and cyclists are in the road (99% of cyclists can't ride at 25 mph)? That sounds like poor city planning, and another major issue. Why would any cyclist be on a road where the speed limit is 55?
  • MTBAggie
    90
    I'll also let the Knapp family know that even though their dad/husband is dead, it bothers you and others that "some" cyclists break the rules. Even though a distracted motorist, breaking the law, killed their family member. Why are we talking about cyclists who get in your way on the road, and not motorists who text and drive and kill people?
  • fugawe09
    171
    This sounds personal for you, so if you know the Knapp family or have been affected by a similar accident, I’m sorry for your loss. 1. I’ve been involved in municipal roadway projects and know the difference between a shoulder and bike lane. Fair point on them not being kept swept. 2. Agreed that people shouldn’t treat driving like it’s Grand Theft Auto. 3. I would go for a ride with you, but I’m about 3k miles away and I’m not quite up to a ride that long. There are both discourteous/unsafe drivers and cyclists and they tend to stick in our memory more than all the ones who followed norms. We have a cultural problem with self-centered behavior regardless of number of wheels. 4. Agreed that the driver behind me in the example is the problem. And as much as I’d love to make his impatience his problem, in the interest of not being party to his accident I’d rather have him in front of me than behind me for principles sake. 5. In my area it is common for cyclists to be on high speed county roads trying to get between regional trail networks that don’t quite connect by a few miles. Poor municipal planning indeed asking a roadway to support a use mix it wasn’t designed for. The price of low taxes. 6. I have no idea the context of this accident. It sounds like a text and drive young driver? Regardless of circumstance it is a tragedy and likely an avoidable one. Increasingly complex phones and cars compounded with growing anxiety and FOMO in society, and deteriorating infrastructure isn’t a good mix. The reality is too many people have licenses that don’t have the right temperament and maturity. Kind of amazing that barbers and auctioneers have stricter licensing and continuing education requirements than drivers. I’m not sure that harsh sentencing is a great deterrent or a useful way to fill our prisons. You’re asking kind of irrational people to be deterred by something very rational. I recall an experiment where drivers were rewarded with (nearly worthless) credit card points for not texting while driving and it proved more salient with the type people who text while driving.
  • MTBAggie
    90
    I don't know the Knapp family. But they're just one more family who has to deal with the result of the careless action of a stranger. My frustration is that this discussion is like a broken record. Cyclist gets hit by car -> people share stories about how cyclists behave badly. That's all, that's the source of my anger/frustration.
  • movielover
    484
    Wrong. I identified one arrogant, reckless cyclist in over a decade. I routinely give cyclists extra room, sometimes slow when passing, and if it's a narrow road, will drive half way over the center line to give said cyclists added safety, or follow behind. You're making sweeping generalizations that don't hold water.

    I've already alluded to my feelings that the driver should face real consequences (not draconian). He allegedly is at fault, speculation is that he was texting.

    As an aside, for years I've seen cyclists blow through stop signs. It doesn't seem legal or safe, I just shake my head.
  • movielover
    484
    SHouse Law Group: "If you acted with gross negligence, then Penal Code 192(c) vehicular manslaughter is a wobbler. This means it may be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony.5

    "The maximum misdemeanor sentence for vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence is one (1) year in county jail—and the maximum felony sentence is six (6) years in state prison.6"
  • MTBAggie
    90

    "As an aside, for years I've seen cyclists blow through stop signs. It doesn't seem legal or safe, I just shake my head."

    Thanks for proving my point. Your observations have nothing to do with Knapp's death.

    "Cyclist gets hit by car -> people share stories about how cyclists behave badly. That's all, that's the source of my anger/frustration."

    How do we educate people on why rules that are written for cars might not be what's safe for cyclists? When people who follow the rules get ran over, you start to wonder if following the rules is what's most safe. For your specific experience, some times being in the middle of the lane is what makes you most visible, and I've heard/read, "Oh my God, I didn't see them!!!" And it's labeled a bike accident. Anyway, I apologize for reacting so strongly. I'm just tired of reading stories of cyclists getting killed by distracted drivers. It's salt in the wound when the response is, "Well, cyclists run stop signs all the time." That fact is completely irrelevant compared to distracted motorists causing accidents (and completely ignores the fact that motorists also regularly blow stop signs).
  • BlueGoldAg
    1.1k
    Condolences to the family and many friends of longtime college and NFL coach Greg Knapp. Knapp, 58, who died Thursday due to massive injuries suffered in a bicycle accident on July 17 near his Danville residence.

    Knapp was cycling within the bike lane when he was hit by a car and never regained consciousness.

    https://www.davisenterprise.com/sports/doug-kelly-remembering-knapps-playing-coaching-careers/?utm_source=DE&utm_campaign=7d6b2f4a4b-Daily_Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_be64fee185-7d6b2f4a4b-171004309
  • Riveraggie
    209
    Responding to the general discussion here about bikes holding up traffic and bike lanes, not the specifics of Knapps death.
    Drivers have to realize that a bike is entitled to use the road. They can use the bike lane if they want to.
    I live near a street that has a four lane road, and a two foot wide bike lane before it slopes into the gutter. I bike with my dog, we go about 13-15 mph on this stretch of three blocks. My choice is try to stay in the bike lane and have drivers whiz by going 25 miles faster than us, or occupy one of the two lanes, which is the safer alternative even if it might irritate someone. Being barely out of the bike lane encourages drivers who think their depth perception is perfect to not change lanes.
    Drivers intolerance of slow moving vehicles has gotten dramatically worse over the years. When I learned to drive there were lots of slow vehicles, and if you got behind them you just dealt with it without having a mental breakdown. A speed limit is not a guarantee.
  • 69aggie
    370
    I live on probably one of the most bike used roads in NorCal, Warmsprings Road between Hwy 12 in Kenwood and Glen Ellen in Sonoma County. It was part of the route of the last (California Classic?) bike races from Davis to the Coast. It is an extremely beautiful scenic two lane road that follows Sonoma Creek with all its windiness and elevation changes, but it has no shoulder at all. You go left in to a rocky hillside or right into the creek with a sizable drop off. Yet with all these problems, we have no trouble with automobile drivers. Most if not all drivers err on the side of the biker and with all the curves, it can take 5 minutes sometimes to pass a biker safely. Maybe drivers here are just more used to bikers. Anyway something positive to say for a change.
  • BlueGoldAg
    1.1k
    That's good to here, 69aggie. In areas like that, which are popular with road cyclists like myself, drivers are much more safety conscious and considerate of cyclists. I've ridden a lot on the roads around Winters, Lake Berryessa, Pope Valley, the mountains around Napa and Sonoma, areas west of Santa Rosa to the coast and along the coast from Jenner to Bodega Bay and inland from there. For the most part the motorists in these areas are considerate of cyclists. Of course, I've encountered some idiots on occasion who were driving way too fast and did not give me a safe space but, for the most part, I've generally had good experiences.

    In places like Winters, for example, cyclists are important to their economies. They frequent the small mom and pop stores along their biking routes and eat in restaurants like Steady Eddy's in Winters. I've spent a lot of money over the years eating at Steady Eddy's after long rides. Great food, by the way!

    I have also ridden a lot in the areas around Plymouth, Sutter Creek, Ione and the small towns like Volcano, Fiddletown and Fairplay. These areas are much more conservative and the drivers there are not as considerate towards cyclists. I love riding in the hills of Amador County but I've also had more close calls from angry drivers, especially men in their pickup trucks, than I can remember. The same goes for the hills around Penryn and Newcastle and outlying areas around Auburn, Colfax, Coloma and Placerville.

    Attitudes towards cyclists change as the geographic area becomes more conservative. The more conservative and remote the area, the greater the intolerance towards cyclists. At least that's been my experience and I've spent a lot of times riding these scenic, country roads.

    I mostly ride by myself on these long rides that I like to do. It worries my wife that I could get hit by an intolerant driver when I'm out riding some remote route in the foothills and then just be left for dead. I can't say it doesn't worry me at times like when I hear a vehicle coming way to fast around a curve when I'm ahead on the edge of a road with no shoulder. I guess I just accept the risk because I love the solitude and beauty of cycling in these breautiful places.
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