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BlueGoldAg
1.5kI struggled to find an appropriate title for this topic that expressed what I'd like to see discussed in this thread but I've been wondering how Sac's meteoric rise to the top of the FCS may affect the growth and relevance of the Aggie program in the greater Sacramento area and in the FCS overall?
Troy Taylor has taken the currently undefeated Hornets from the bottom of the Big Sky to the #2 seed in the playoffs with a legitimate chance of becoming an undefeated National Champion. They are now in a position to do something we have been chasing ever since we became a scholarship program and moved up to the FCS and Taylor has done it in just 3 short years at the helm of the Hornets. It's a remarkable story of success to say the least.
So will Sac's success have any affect at all, either in a positive or negative way, on the future success and growth of Aggie football? For example, will Sac have a distinct edge in recruiting now? I know that our pool of eligible recruits is smaller due to our academic requirements but will Sac's current success give them an even more decided recruiting advantage now?
The Hornets' success has energized their fan base and their attendance has soared. We have a nicer but smaller stadium but we are far from ever drawing 23,000 fans to a game. Improving the quality of their athletic facilities has always been a struggle for the Hornets but their donors are going to be much more likely to step up now and help out. Our attendance has improved but we still struggle each year to put students in the seats and the greater Davis community is not as sports minded as Sacramento.
I've always felt that the greater Sacramento area was ripe and waiting for a highly successful D1 program in basketball or football but especially in football. It's a much larger and geographically convenient population to draw from and the whole area is growing rapidly. Saramentans are hungry for successful sports at the D1 collegiate level. I've always hoped that we would fill the D1 void but Sac is in the driver's seat now.
Don't get me wrong, I believe we have a very good football program and I love that we are a true example of a program where academics and character matters but can we keep pace with Sac's success on the field of play now or will they continue accelerate away from us and become the big fish in the local pond? Is there room for both schools like Montana and Montana state, for example? Does Does it even matter?
I think Hawkins would say we just need to keep focusing on being the best version of ourselves that we can be and let the chips fall where they may. I get it. Will that be enough? What are your thoughts on this? -
BaseballAtDobbins
141Sac is also a CSUschool where they will admit students with a certain gpa automatically if they reside or attend HS or community college in certain counties (I know Solano, Sacramento,Placer, El Dorado, and Yolo counties but probably more). I have no issue with that because we need to make sure local students have a college close to home to attend and or transfer their credits. So their general fan potential is higher than ours. We're still a public school. Our (regular/non athletic) admissions are tough though generally not as unobtainable as UCLA or Cal. So it's not like a Cal-Stanford comparison where almost no one without a Stanford connection cheers for them. I think I've met two fans of Stanford that didn't attend or work there an that's it. For Cal they have their issues but in addition to myself, I know of many non Cal alums who cheer for them/attend games. Cal is the East Bay's team.
Davis is in a bubble and outside of Davis and Woodland, they are a bit isolated from Sacramento and the wealthy eastern suburbs.
Sac can continue to recruit basic 2.0 students and make their team a juggernaut. I don't see them having the funds to go the MWC/FBS but a conference may have interest due to CA. I think Sac's ceiling is an EWU type of team where they can win championships at the FCS level (where's we're probably max a quarterfinal/semifinalist which is still great). Sac can have amazing seasons but they can also have terrible seasons. I don't see them as elite every year like the Dakota state schools or as consistent as Montana/MSU but they can win it all.
UCD traditionally was more sporty than Sac State so they can still have loyal fans attend games. I think the biggest challenge will be beating them in future years. If they win their first two games (quite likely looking at the bracket) I don't see them losing to Davis for awhile. Sac might lift the profile of the Big Sky conference just like NDSU and SDSU do for their conference. But it will make recruiting against them very difficult. We can still have good teams that make the playoffs every few years, but to get the good ones who are at the FCS level, most will choose Sac State since easier to get in and winning of course.
UC Davis still has academics going for it and NIL might not be as important at this level compared to the Big 4 of CA or the MWC three. I could see Sac getting local deals. Sac needs a new stadium.
I always thought it was funny that UC Davis was on 1140, the powerhouse sports station and Sac was on some random station every few years. -
CA Forever
863Unfortunately, I just don't think that we will really ever have a consistent fanbase showing up to games. The student population just doesn't seem that interested in sports in general and the locals only show up to the biggest of games even when the team is performing really well. These kids want to play in front of a good crowd and we simply don't offer that on most nights.
I think one thing we have going for us is that I think UC Davis is Dan Hawkins' last rodeo in terms of coaching college football at the division 1 level at least. He's here to stay and I think he can continue to build a positive culture for us. I know recent articles have Troy Taylor saying that he wants to stay at Sac State and that may be true and it may not. What is he supposed to say when asked that "yeah, I'm already packing my bags for an FBS position"? I have to imagine that there are FBS programs doing their due diligence in terms of what they can offer to snag him away from the Hornets.
I think it's also important to note that outside of NDSU pretty much all schools go through periods of highs and lows. Sac State is on a high right now, but who knows what next season holds. Things can change a lot from season to season. Kids transfers, injuries happen, positional coaches leave, etc. etc. I think we're still in a solid position to compete in the region. -
AggieFinn2
88I believe hypothetical Hawkins would be right-UCD just needs to be the best version of itself and not worry about everyone else. Sac State will always be able to cast a wider recruiting net because its academic admission requirements are not as strict.
UC Davis has always been a school that goes its own way and succeeds in athletics despite its academic expectations. I think as fans we sometmes forget (I know I definiely have sometimes) that these contests are for and about the student-athletes. Keeping alumni engaged and spending money is secondary. What I guess I'm trying to say is it's easy to forget that the only people who really need to be concerned with how good the team is are the student-athletes, coaches, and athletics administrators. If we're getting all riled up about the outcome of a football game there's something the matter. I mean,be pissed that the referee made a bad call or some punk in the stands was bothering you, but then it's time to let it go.
I was particularly disturbed by the way in which Ron Gould was let go. So the team was bad when he was there-who cares ? Did he break the law, endanger or harrass anyone ? How privileged are those people who donated to buy him out of his contract ? Homelessness and other problems affect many, but we simply can't have a losing football team in Davis. CA so let's throw our surplus income at something so insignificant.
I have to remind myself sometimes (and some people on this message board need to remind themselves as well) that these athletic events just aren't that important to all but a very select group of people. We should be going to support the student-athletes' efforts and have a good time being outside + doing something different, and if that doesn't translate into wins-that's fine. If our happiness depends even in part on a game outcome then we don't have enough good things going on in our lives. -
69aggie
400I agree with AF2. Hay, we lost a game to the number 2 school in the FCS by 6 points! We were in every game that we lost with the possible exception of MS we had a very tough schedule. So I see no need for panic or even heavy hand wringing. The program is in good shape IMHO. -
movielover
627The Athletic Performance Center will help. So would more playmakers, and more offense. We don't use the whole field, so opponents are defending ten yards. A nasty DE (sacks) would help.
We had a very good year, unfortunately it was a brutal schedule. -
BlueGoldAg
1.5kI knew that the context of what I was talking about would be open to interpretation as it should be. I am fortunate to have a very full life with far too many interests, but too little time for them all, and I do enjoy following collegiate and pro sports as well: Aggies, Giants, 49ers and pro cycling mainly. I want the teams I follow to win too.
I've been an Aggie fan through thick and thin and I'd be one of the first to acknowledge that the environment that we provide for our athletes and the experiences they have while participating at UCD are the most important things we can do in our athletics program. We do an outstanding job with that.
I also believe that winning and losing is a measure of how we are performing against our peers and, as much as Hawk will say the game is bigger than the W's and L's and it definitely is, he also says we all want to win and that our goal is to make the playoffs and go for a national championship. When you play well and compete hard and still lose, you can't ask for more but you'll still be left looking to play better and win the next time out. That's just the nature of sports.
Sac has always been our rival and they've seized the momentum of late and may be on a fast track to bigger things. Or, maybe this is just their current glory days for a while. We've had ours too. As an Aggie fan, I want to keep pace with them and I want to win against them and they seem to have had our number in football and basketball more than not recently. It doesn't ruin my day or impact my life but I don't like losing to them. I think that's part and parcel of being a fan for the teams that you love. At least it is for me... -
AggieFinn
730I'm of the opinion that UC Davis, as they're doing it, is right there. They haven't crossed over as a "program", but reminding myself we started the year with a 2nd year QB, and Hastings had only a handful of starts when he started the season. Cody Hawkins was a first time OC at the FCS level, and there was a big learning curve at the beginning of the year. We were all harping on the offense, but they improved, thankfully with a string of teams that were beatable come mid-season, but none-the-less they put together a winning season despite some real setbacks in the off-season and during the season.
Defensively, Davis was fantastic - Montana State buzzsawed them in Bozeman, but looking at the Montana beatdown yesterday, you have to tip your hat to a very potent bunch of Bobcats.
I think the program as a whole, is much deeper than it has been...maybe the one thing missing is that transcendent offensive player that can open up the gameplan. We were WR by committee this year, Hutton certainly came on, but there was no standout, no go to playmaker...that role fell to Gilliam, who was phenomenal, but without a one-two or one-two-three punch, it can be easier for good teams to key and defend.
Davis is right there, but next season they need to win some of these bigger games if they want to contend for something beyond November. We said the same thing last year when Davis faded into the playoffs losing to those ranked teams.
We have some promising young players who took huge strides this year, encouraged by guys like Budgett, Larison, Rex Connors (a RFr.), Hastings, Venable, Kraft, Tompkins, Hutton, Buchanan, Poerio, Eaton, Sarale, Ford, Toki, Davis, Thorpe, Castles, Kennedy and Perez coming back.
Biggest holes to fill are Left Tackle, Center, Place Kicker and Cornerback... my opinion. Center, less so, because when Pettek went down I don't think Davis lost much of a beat offensively, the backup did well. -
AggieFinn2
88if you re-read my post you'll notice I didn't reply directly to you, so what you specifically are doing or not doing is of no importance to me as far as the post is concerned. If you went home after an Aggie loss and punched holes in your walls that would be your business. I'm stating an opinion based on what I've observed and personal experience. You're free to disagree of course
You asked what UCD needs to do. My answer is that nothing needs to be done because it's none of our concern. No matter how much money we donate or how many tickets we buy we are no more part of the team than someone who cares nothing about the program. I believe our role is to go (or not go) and if going, have a good time while not infringing on the rightsother spectators
I actually don't view pro teams in the same light as college teams, but it depends on your point of view. With pro teams I think it's strictly a financial transaction. You are paying for an experience and your ticket money is potentially going into a rich owner's bank account. The game is essentially a battle between millionaires showcasing whose employees are better. If you have a bad time because your team lost by all means complain because this was an exchange of goods and services that went sour.
I see college sports differently. The ticket price goes to ensure that the university hosting the event can continue to offer the competitions by paying for such things as the wages of security guards. As to game outcome, you get what you get. They're holding the event for the student-athletes: we are just there to watch. I guess I see an athletics program as a year-long PBS fundraiser and a win as one of those tote bags. -
agalum
438After the slac beat down in Reno, their fans were bailing ship left and right. The next year they were making a national statement. Our progress has been slower. I wonder how much of this is related to the challenge of recruiting good athletes who can pass biochemistry at UCD? -
BlueGoldAg
1.5kI think it certainly makes for a smaller pool of potential recruits to select from but, then again, having the kind of athletes that we do get here is one of the things that makes the program special and contributes to our success.
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Riveraggie
350in recent years with the extra year of eligibility and the liberal transfer rules have facilitated rapid turnarounds using ronin players.
We got some, but compared to Montana State, Idaho and Sac, they were less impactful. -
BlueGoldAg
1.5kAnd I do not believe I had an off-topic post. — AggieFinn2
I don't see anything in my response that alludes to your post being of topic. Your post is fine with me. -
DavisAggie
68You're all much too maudlin. Davis played its toughest schedule in school history, gave up the fewest points in the Big Sky, avg. almost 36 a game, had the best rushing offense ever, and Hastings completing almost 70% and getting a plus 150 effciency rating -
BlueGoldAg
1.5kThe only part about all those good stats that's not good is that the selection committee didn't seem to consider them and left us out of the playoffs while putting Montana in. That has to not only be very disappointing to Aggie fans but to the team and coaches as well. Thanks for posting those stats.
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DavisAggie
68I How to get in playoffs? 1) don't have a brutal schedule 2) win close games. It looks they've taken of No. 1 with the Southern Utah and TX Commerce games.
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BlueGoldAg
1.5kI actually like playing up versus playing against teams you are "expected" to beat. Those tough games create more excitement for us fans and can certainly boost our stature if we win but, as we've seen this year, it can hurt you if you lose too many of them. They're probably not the best choice to make in regards to potential injuries also.
It looks like we've settled into Southern Utah, Texas A&M Commerce and Utah Tech (former Dixie State) for the next few years plus an FBS "money" game. No SDSU or NDSU in the near future on the regular schedule. -
Riveraggie
350We can say we missed out because of the schedule and that is true. However it’s also true that we could have won one more of the five games we lost. If we want to make the playoffs and do something while there we need to fix why we lost those games. We have to play Weber, Montana State, and Sac every year and we need to get a little better. We improved to the point most those games are close, but we’re not victims of luck in losing to three of four tough conference opponents.
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agalum
438
“ How to get in playoffs? 1) don't have a brutal schedule 2) win close games. It looks they've taken of No. 1 with the Southern Utah and TX Commerce games.”
Wait, what happened to all the positive stats you quoted? It boils down to the W-L stat. Nothing else matters at the end of the day, or shall i say season. -
DavisAggie
68Nothing happened to the stats, that's we're a consistent top-10 in several computer rankings, but when you play 4 of the top 5 teams in FCS, you're going to get your share of losses. Not everybody can be a top-5 team.
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movielover
627Nice man, but we see why he was never a coordinator. We gave him more than enough time.
Sac losses 2 QBs, but their fans are crowing about the new QBs coming in. They won't go 11-0 again. -
BaseballAtDobbins
141Okay he was a good RB coach at Cal but for head coach, he wasn't a good fit. It would take bth skill and luck to go undefeated again.
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BlueGoldAg
1.5kThis Sac fan believes that we will never beat them again as long as Taylor is their coach:
Another Causeway win, and similarly to the 2019, we got to enjoy their trickery and gimmicks backfiring in our favor. A double pass that went nowhere, multiple wide receiver screen passes that were blown up at the line, an absurd lateral play on a kick return late in the game that cost them a shot at the endzone on the final drive. All that 5D chess nonsense that usually worked under past regimes is costing them in arguably the most important game of the season.
Not only did this win secure a 3rd straight Causeway victory, an undefeated regular season, another BSC title, and a 2-seed in the playoffs; but most importantly it ended the season of their self proclaimed “best team in program history” and squashed what small playoff hopes they had going into Selection Sunday. Now they have all offseason to reckon with the fact that this Hornet program is far superior to theirs by every metric measurable and question what they can possibly do to come close to matching the level of success the Hornets are currently enjoying. They also have to face the realization that they may never win another Causeway so long as Coach Taylor is on our sideline.
https://bigskyfans.com/hornets/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5660&start=20 -
AggieFinn2
88And I would note to that hornet fan that their lunch break is over, and they need to get back on the grill.
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AggieFinn
730
A lot of middle aged and older alum were at the game, they were wearing shirts from a time that had a lot of bad blood, and didn't have PC culture holding them back making nasty shirts. it actually kind of had me smiling waiting to get in, all that old school back and forth was sort of present...memories.
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