• AggieFinn2
    88
    The stadium, not the AST member.

    I thought this topic might really get away from me if I brought it up in the thread about evaluating the athletic program.

    I don't really share Bob Dunning's view on lights having a big impact on attendance at baseball games.
    The students aren't in classes on the weekend and they still don't attend because it doesn't interest them. They would rather study or do internet things. Not a judgment, just a statement of fact. How do you get them interested ? If I knew that I'd be the commissioner of MLB, not some rando on a message board.

    As for townies I think the location of the stadium is prohibitive. It's in a great location for students in Segundo/Primero/Tercero to walk on over, and I'm sure that was a factor in choosing the location. They see it when they ride past the Pavilion on the way to classes. However, it doesn't have visibility from the main road running by the campus and it's not near any major campus entrance. In other words UCD misses out on the spectators who would drive by and say, "Oh, a baseball field. I love baseball, I'll have to come back and see a game sometime " because it's tucked away underneath the Pavilion's shadow. You can't discount the visibilty factor. A lot of randos in Davis wouldn't even know UCD has a baseball team were it not for the hazing scandal, much less where the field is, if they didn't attend basketball games already.

    Then there's the matter of the empty seats. The stadium seats 3,500, which well exceeds the reasonable expectation for how many people attend college baseball at most Northern CA colleges. I've even gone to a Stanford game and they weren't close to that. This isn't Texas. You're talking below 500 for most on avearage. Yes, there will be lots of empty seats. They had lofty expectations when they built the place, but the community interest is minimal so a crowd of even 1,000 is unreasonable except on maybe Picnic Day with free admission.

    I also don't believe a lack of lights really hurts the recruiting so much as a lack of winning. The location of the university is another factor. You really have to love small community life to want to live in Davis year-round. Davis is not a destination city. Stuff closes early. Currently neither are the major cities it's near. Sacramento is just a nothing city that happens to be the state capitol and San Francisco is covered in needles and excrement at present.

    So Davis is a great city, but if you're provided a similarly excellent opportunity somewhere more intersesting, say San Diego, where to go ?

    So why are basketball and football able to recruit so well ? 1. They're not baseball. 2. There are fewer competing programs at D-I for football than baseball. 3. Basketball requires a smaller roster than either so the talent pool is pretty deep. 4. Football and basketball have actually established track records of being succesful.

    And quite honestly Sac State doesn't have better athletic facilities than Davis for anything. Their baseball field has lights and a new video scoreboard. And I don't care for the scoreboard- the score is the hardest thing to see on the screen, like an afterthought. The seating structure is very basic and two local junior colleges have more visually appealing parks (like CRC with its brickwork). And then there are the restrooms, don't even get me started..
  • movielover
    484
    Good points. The new coach has really quickly improved things, can he continue the surge next year?

    You don't mention 'changing demographics'. The facility was also scaled back as they sat on the Dobbins donation for a long time as they considered 'gender equity' issues. Construction costs spiked, so Aggie baseball got less.
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    I really don't know how UCD will respond to this season. In their D-I history UCD has never followed a good season with a better or equal season, a real lack of consistency. Of course we are in the Nicholson era now, so maybe that trend will change-we don't have enough data to say given that the 2022 was likely a crapshoot before it even started.

    They have some very good core players (Wolbert, Wright, Green, Wooldridge, Helfrick, Kang, Lee, Leahey, Romero) who were freshmen or sophomores this year to go with what is likely to be a big group of seniors in 2024, so there should be a lot of experience.

    They are losing a few key players this year, and some of the core returning players will be MLB draft-eligible next year (mainly thinking Wolbert and Green), so the incoming recruiting class for 2024 will be extremely important.

    I don't know that progress will be linear. It's possible they could finish with about the same number of wins and still have shown improvement

    I mentioned before that UCD has hurdles to baseball recruitment (location and lack of a winning tradition to name two things). Another is they don't cast a very wide net with recruiting. They only have two players from outside CA (and one of them-Kaden Hogan-was already playing collegiately in CA). This trend seems to indicate UCD doesn't have a sizable baseball recruiting budget either

    I tried to think of another university in a similar baseball bind, and it turns out it was in Stockton. UOP , which has lights by the way, cannot sustain any success it has due to some recruiting hurdles of its own.

    1. Given a choice between comparable educational and athletic opportunities, why choose the one in Stockton ? Safety does matter.

    2. Student athletes there (unless they have rich parents) are faced with a massive pile of student loan debt after graduating. Even with a full athletic scholarship "U Owe Plenty".

    3. And like Davis, they don't let just anyone in who can get decent grades in HS and write a check . They have high academic standards too.
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    I actually place partial blame on UCD baseball's lack of winning tradition on the 2008 team.. The program peaked too soon and this attracted additional draft attention and they lost key non-senior players who should have been around to shepherd all the talented freshmen in 2009 who were in over their heads to be frank.

    As such they lost that brief window of time to keep the succesful team building going and take advantage of the recruiting benefit that winning would've brought. After that the program floundered about falling far behind the rest of the Big West in recruiting until 2015 when they had a winning record. Unfortunately the entire starting rotation graduated that year and they were back to floundering again 2016 (although that team managed a win against Michigan at Dobbins Stadium) and that's been the story ever since..
  • DrMike
    649
    D1 baseball is limited to 11.7 scholarships to be divided among 27 players (on a 35 player roster). so, the vast majority (all?) players are on partials. at UOP, that has to be a high burden unless they are really good at getting aid elsewhere.
  • madcityscott
    7
    For me personally the biggest issue with the stadium is that it's so darn hot. Covered seating would help and would also add a little personality to the place, which is a pretty bland design right now. I don't know how much lighting would help with attendance, to be honest. I think the bigger issue is that there just isn't a UCD baseball culture in this town.
    The location is an interesting question. I've driven by the softball stadium during games and it's caught my eye, but not enough to make me attend. Maybe better advertising of the games?
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    They do need better advertising of games. Also, it's a small city-there's a definite limit to how much some ads downtown can help.

    Even if you don't go, it's there and you know its there, having seen it To use a double negative- that isn't nothing. It's better than being some abstract concept or something you just heard about. From a convenience perspective I could see someone who doesn't regularly visit UCD finding it a bit of a pain having to drive that far onto campus and find parking, especially if they're not sure how good the show is going to be. I noticed when I went to a Stanford game that the townies were not deterred by having to drive onto campus, seemingly because it was Stanford. That reputation gives an expectation of good entertainment. Not that game-they were clobbered but people stil stayed late and spent lots of money.

    I don't know what the limitations are for baseball but football and basketball have always had fun ways to engage the crowd (such that they can better tolerate the weather). Not so much for baseball. I remember at different times they've had trivia questions for prizes, but not always. Even if I don't participate the challenge is still fun. I try not to participate in those so the casual fans will have a chance.

    I only need the game to maintain my interest but other people would probably like more fun activities. I've seen a couple of different colleges that offer a challenge to bring something to a table first and win some small prize. The kids seem to like that.

    One other thing-a few years ago I remember a few of the teams (baseball, softball, basketball and soccer I think) held a yard sale on the soccer field to clear out old shoes and jerseys they weren't using anymore. I wound getting a baseball jersey (don't know whose) for $20. Don't wear it, just cool look at. Anyway if they are looking for prizes that's a potential treasure trove of small items, not including large items that they could auction off. They get their spring cleaning done and the fans are

    As always I think it would be more enjoyable if the announcer were excited about their job. The main guy is technically proficient (aside from being hit-and-miss with reporting player substitutions) but he sounds to me like he's just reporting the news.
  • 69aggie
    370
    Dobbins is actually a very attractive baseball stadium. It was designed correctly from the start in terms of orientation to the southwest to the northeast to help prevent sun issues for the players. Stanfords sunken Diamond stadium on the other hand faces due south and is not properly positioned. This can create major sun issues for the defensive players. I grew up in Palo Alto and went to many games at the sunken Diamond. There were never many people at the games I went. Maybe 300 or so, but this was in The 60s/70s and Stanford did not have lights! Then Stanford started winning games in the ‘90s. They then learned that the NCAA rules were such that no team could host a regional if it did not have lights. Guess what. Stanford got lights dues to a $500,000 gift from a former player in the early ‘90s. So, yes. Lights matter in the game of baseball. I am told that once the lights went in at Stanford the attendance went up significantly. I am told that when Dobbins was built they had the foresight to install conduit for future lights. If true it would seem that we could get lighting pretty cheap. So, every college baseball stadium in Northern California, it seems, has lights except for UC Davis. If this is ok with our ICA people I think an explanation form the AD would be in order. IMHO
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    St. Mary's and USF don't have lights.
  • 69aggie
    370
    Thank you for your input. Appreciate it for full information
  • movielover
    484
    Do they serve beer? That was a key point when Coach Swimley was trying to lure minor league baseball / other teams here to help complete / fund the stadium project. Back then (80s / 90s) the campus didn't want to be the first, even though alumni groups routinely got waivers to serve alcohol on campus.
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    Yes, Woodstock's has a stand on weekends where they serve pizza slices and beer. I don't think they are there on Tuesdays.
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    I would also like to reiterate how big of a deterrent to attendancethe losing is. Just for fun I looked at the schedules for the last 4 seasons and determined that I've seen a combined total of 17 games at Dobbins Stadium in that time (a couple of doubleheaders included). Care to guess how many of those games UCD won ?



    TWO.

    Now if I were an ordinary casual fan I wouldn't have come to that many games-at some point the "Aww, good try, get 'em next time !!!" starts to get really old. Something has to give here. Now I can appreciate the 11 win improvement from last year, but the play has been pretty sloppy since the Cal Poly series ended.
  • 69aggie
    370
    Obviously off topic, but the Aggie softball team was eliminated in the first playoff round. Surprisingly so was UCLA the number 2 seed by Liberty 2-1. Brooke Yanez took the loss. Brooke has had an amazing career over 6 seasons, of course starting as an Aggie in 2018, then at oregon and finally at UCLA. I believe she thew a 2 hitter in the loss. Certainly was one of the most outstanding players to ever don an Aggie uniform male or female.
  • 72Aggie
    300
    That UCLA loss is a stunner. They were the No. 2 seeded team in the NCAA tournament and hosted the regional. They lost to Grand Canyon and Liberty. Davis played in the Softball NIT, an 8 team invitational in Ft. Collins, CO. Not a great showing for the Big West as the two conference teams in the Invitational, Davis and Northridge, each went O-2, as did Fullerton and Long Beach State in the NCAAs.
  • madcityscott
    7
    I'm surprised UCD doesn't try to partner more with Little League and travel ball teams. My son's team went once or twice but I think it was just some of the dads deciding it would be fun rather than the Aggies reaching out. From my experience there generally aren't many kids in attendance--I've been to games where NO kids ran after foul balls. (The Aggies do run youth camps, at least.)
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    I think they do have little league and faculty days sometimes. I have seen the former and they draw a couple dozen kids if I remember correctly. I guess the limitation with the little league is the game times might conflict with some of their games.

    As I do with the major UCD sports I think there's a real ceiling to what can be accomplished. Football has a decent shot to win a national championship because it plays in a subdivision, meaning it is not competing against the strongest D-I teams in the country for the most part but basketball and baseball have to go through the Florida States and Alabamas. It would seemingly be better if baseball had its own FCS equivalent for the UC Davises who peak once in awhile but at the very best areknocked out within the first 2 games of the NCAA tournament. Baseball does not have an NIT tournament either. But softball does..how odd.

    Starting next year or the tear after I believe UCD's baseball season will start ending a week earlier because of the new Big West tournament. I'm assuming they just take the top 8, which will leave UCD in the cold unless it makes a significant jump in the standings. Finishing 10th or 11th is probably not going to cut it.
  • 69aggie
    370
    Boy, UC San Diego leads the BW baseball standings and probably will win it all. That’s a lot for a team that has not been DI until recently. I predict that UCSD will become the dominant BW program in all, or at least most sports soon. Reason. Location, location, location. Media coverage. Very easy place to recruit to. If they ever get a football team I see the PAC12 calling. Remember Socher saying if Santa Barbara brings back football “don't expect me to recruit against them” you can x2 that against UCSD in all sports. And that is why we have to bring all our facilities up to,the highest possible standard.
    Yes, UCSD baseball has LIGHTS! We don’t. I think it matters. IMHO
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    I don't believe UCSD is eligible for the postseason thiis season, but I also think you made a better case for location being more crucial than lights. UCSB and CSUN out-recruited us in baseball even when they didn't have lights. Probably the only Big West school we "out-location" is Bakersfield, If UCD went back to the CCAA it still wouldn't out-location several of the teams. CSULA probably-nice to not be in a dangerous area. Chico ? -It's a toss-up.

    I doubt lack of lights is the deciding factor for prospective recruits who choose to go elsewhere. If I were a prospective recruit myself I would prioritize the quality of the academics, the location and the quality of the playing opportunity. The opportunity to play everyday is worthless if I dislike the campus/community or the team sucks.

    And losing for this long the team sucks. It sucks less than it did two years ago but it still sucks. The players don't suck but the team does. They win a couple big games but then they get squashed by their peer institutions. I don't blame Nicholson and his staff-they walked into a highly unfortunate situation and are doing the best they can. Nor do I blame the players for that matter. I just believe the program is in over its head. I think the most likely scenario is it improves to the point that it turns into a version of St. Mary's, sprinkling some winning seasons here and there and turning out a few really good professional players but not making the playoffs.
  • 69aggie
    370
    Nice comment Finn. I never meant to say davis was not an attractive place to attend college. It is probably the most safe college town in the country. A d I think that is why we recruit so much better with women players. The guys want exposure and flash. Not safety. We don’t have that. By the way, San Diego is the crime capital of the south. Apparently didn’t hurt their MBB a team. WTF do I know!
  • 72Aggie
    300
    Whatever the crime rate is in San Diego proper, the UC San Diego campus is in La Jolla. Maybe we could put the UC Davis campus in Carmel.
  • Jackbacker2
    25
    Weather is a big factor for baseball practice and games in Jan-early April. Cold, windy, and rainy is a tough trio to hone your skills in. Lights are great for Summer, Fall and late Spring but night games in Feb sounds pretty tough for me. IF the baseball team started practice on Sept 7th before the start of school when the Davis climate is perfect for baseball, their practices would be better than the 20 hour practices in Nov. Additionally practices before school have no weekly limit of 20 hours. This does cost money for the school to feed the team and. house the freshman, but could be money well spent.
  • AggieFinn
    418
    I wonder if having to pay to park is kind of a turnoff for outsiders.
  • AggieFinn2
    88
    My understanding is that on weekends you only have to pay for parking if it's a designated special event day. I had one day when there was a big event going on so I had to pay and one where it wasn't so I didn't have to. Of course I believe football is always a special event but on that day it was just baseball so they didn't care.
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