long term wise, yes, getting into the FBS before major conference realignment is worth it.

this this this. FCS is gonna be basically relegated even further in the future imo. Staying FCS or going FBS for me at this point is more of a debate of what eventually will be like playing d2 vs d1 (even if the group of 6 ends up being sorta like a new FCs to a certain extent).

I'm with you. Bank some of the money we'll need for the jump, then invest the rest into what we have and what we're building.

All Davis to FBS deniers, please answer the following questions with sources.
1. What is our current FOOTBALL media rights distribution vs what we can expect from the mountain west.

2. Please explain how moving football, which is the biggest revenue producer in college sports (Football and men’s basketball subsidize the other sports with their revenue), to a higher division, which would then increase our media payout, increase the level of competition and brand name competition (which would increase ticket sales and tv viewership) would hurt the school. KNOWING that increased media payout from football would boost the athletic budget.

Also knowing that being in FBS would boost the brand recognition and get more out of state tuition, again, making more money. Here is an interview with AD DeLuca speaking on this. https://youtu.be/t3fbSpb_WJc?is=Hq78LWbgQhsRb4Kg

3. Please explain why we would pay and exit fee from the mountain west to join the PAC 12 when we JUST joined the mountain west. That literally does not make sense. REMINDER, Davis is a NON FOOTBALL member of the mountain west. Meaning we are already a member of the conference, just not for football. We CANNOT join the pac 12 for football and remain in the mountain west for all other sports.

4. Please show what 20 year football revenue projections would be for moving to FBS vs staying in FCS. I find is EXTREMELY unlikely staying in FCS will provide a better economic outlook than moving to the FBS

Also I won’t be surprised if in 15+ years Davis tried to move to P4. I’d like to remind everyone UC Davis is an affiliate member of the Big 12 in some sports (that aren’t included in the MW)

You're only looking at one side of the ledger. How many millions in debt is Bay Area titan Cal in debt? Cal's FB HC makes $6 M per year, basketball HC $3 Million per, football GM over $1 Million per. Cal is in the Bay area, near Silicon Valley, while Sac is still an ag / government area. You seem to avoid the fact that most college Division I programs lose lots of money. Cal subsidized, UCLA swimming in debt. We already have more students applying than anyone can accomodate, while St. Mary's College may be in trouble. Let's say five years down the line our HC in basketball wins a few tourney games, he'll want to cash in.

We'll have a clearer picture in 3-5 years. Cal, UCLA, Stanford not happy flying East. We've had the good fortune of one particularly generous alum helping fund several large projects. Just 1.5 years ago Athletics couldn't figure out how to give away Playoff tickets or publicize the game. That isn't a money issue.

I’m not a fbs denier to use your description, but one that believes we need to have the resources to be competitive at that level. So my answer is another question. What are the average expenses of MW football participants (coaches salaries, NIL, travel, food for the players, etc) vs the anticipated revenue from the MW? At the moment, we’re way below the resources that the top fcs schools have. I don’t want to see us being a tune up fight for the heavy hitters. We’re going to need big time resources to be competitive at that level. In pizza terms, Woodstocks is great but we need Dominos.

Good point.

And on the pizza front…what I would do for a Roundtable Pizza in Colorado. Little Leagues e memories….

Cal Athletics: $165.4 million expenses vs $153 million in revenue. The department operates with an annual deficit of around $24.3 million.

The Bears receive institutional support totaling roughly $68 million to $75+ million annually. (This includes stadium renovation costs. Right now they are just paying interest. A few years down the road when they start paying principal, costs explode.)

UCLA Athletics' yearly operational shortfall sits near $40+ million per year, with the campus chipping in $30 million per year.

You are thinking about it the right way. The budget number for MWC football is $20m. A full share of MWC media rights is 3.5m.

1. UC Davis is not moving up to P4 status like Cal and UCLA, so their budgets are not comparable. UC Davis would be moving to G6 football. The average HC salary in the mountain west is under 2 million dollars. We aren’t talking about basketball cost as all other sports other than football are already in the mountain west. Davis is a non football member. https://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporters/how-much-every-head-football-coach-in-the-mountain-west-and-pac-12-will-make-in-2026

Davis does not have the facility debt UCLA or CAL has, and will be using donations to fund the football renovations. Again, the cost of G6 football is extremely lower than P4. It’s slightly a step about FCS.

I will also like to point out while yes, Cal and UCLA are in the bay and LA, UC Davis is in the #20 tv market in the country. Far better than most schools. So it’s not like Davis is in an unfavorable location.


Now onto the point of resources, this is something I agree on and have been harping about. Davis has been doing a bad job with this, but we are slowly seeing improvements. I don’t even understand how the coach had to fight to make sure players had a place to stay for the FBS semifinals. Absurd. Even the game day experience sucks. But I’ll let the admin take care of that, and I may make a few suggestions to that.

where did you get that number

https://herosports.com/fbs-mountain-west-football-budgets-look-like-ksks/
Actual operating expenses. Less than what you quoted. Again, most schools subsidize their football program, just like every other sport.

If we’re worried about turning a profit let’s cut all Olympic sports and most women’s sports. The fact of the matter is college sports cost money, but they don’t cripple the university. Again, someone please show how staying in the FCS would be a better long term economic decision than moving to FBS. WITH EVIDENCE.

From the conference. And that does not consider the cost of a UC scholarship relative to the rest of the conference or the NIL budget. 25 is actually a better bare bones number to be marginally competitive at the sub power league level for Davis.

Again, please provide sources. Davis tuition is only $6k more than SJ State, a mountain west school? So how would that blow up the budget. There is also no minimum for the amount of scholarships, but there are 85 (full) max scholarships allowed, up from 63 from FCS. So they CAN, but not required to, offer 22 more scholarships. 85 x $48k (I’m rounding up on tuition and board) is 4.08 million. San Jose state would be 85 X $37.5 = 3.1875 million. So let’s say a difference in scholarship cost of about a million dollars.

San Jose Stats football expenses were about $16 million according to . So let’s assume Davis would have about $17 million in expenses. NO WHERE NEAR the $25 million amount you threw out there.

Where are you getting your numbers from? You keep throwing it numbers with no evidence, no links, just saying stuff. I’m not engaging you on this anymore.

The point I was making today is most people against the move are not pushing any reasons backed by fact. All I’m asking for is just to provide sources. It not hard to add a link to your post.

There are 105 scholarships allowed in the Mountain West, as there are in FCS unless limited by the conference. The NCAA has discarded the distinction between full and partial scholarships, now that they allow revenue sharing they just limit the roster size. Distinguishing between a scholarship and revenue sharing was a distinction without a difference. Scholarships can be full or partial.
When comparing tuition you might factor in that many of the schools recruit heavily out of state, more so than California schools, due to distribution of high school prospects.

I looked that up, that is true. 105 total scholarships. Still no minimum.

You seem to want the whole athletic department to focus on big-time football, while our tradition and purpose has been nurturing academically sound student athletes.

I'm not against FBS, but you're throwing out a million here and a million there as no big deal. Both UCLA and Cal have extensive financial problems. And what does Cal do? Add a "me too" Football GM at over $1 Million per year, to match Stanford. Stanford cut 30 ICA staff last year, and only averaged 28,000 in home attendance. That average was boosted by a Big Game sellout. They hosted no-9 Notre Dame at the end of the season and only drew 27,000.

Yes, I want Davis to be a big time football school. I’m a think big type of person. I also know it takes money to grow, not just in sports but in all facets of like. Can’t really get places with a something for nothing mindset.

Let’s see how Cal does with attendance this year. Stanford was bad, and bad teams usually have bad attendance. Based of my knowledge of the situation, Cal is expecting to have the tarps removed this season due to great ticket sales.

You're on to something here. Keep WINNING and filling out the stadium, and anything is possible in the next 3+ yrs. Winning cures all. It seems to me the donor base lies dormant, but a few FCS championship runs could wake it up..

bad teams usually have bad attendance

To avoid being bad at the Mountain West level Davis needs to have sources of funding to fund 50% more scholarships (from 63 to at least mid 90s), $2 million to $3 million budget for revenue sharing for football to match the average in the mountain west, some NIL arrangements to market players, whatever is required in increased coaches and salaries, plus the FBS conversion fees. Staying where they are and implementing the parts of that list that improve the quality of the team will enable them to win at the FCS level and build the fan base and grow revenue better than prematurely moving up to be a cellar dweller.

ding ding ding!!

Also I’d like to be clear, I’m not advocating for Davis to move up to FBS next year. We’re about 3 seasons away from the reported timeline (2029 move up). In no way should Davis move up without stadium renovations and improvements to the fan experience (to get more people to games).

I’m a think big type of person. I also know it takes money to grow, not just in sports but in all facets of like. Can’t really get places with a something for nothing mindset. — Akiltopmack99

Davis athletics has trouble getting places in any sort of acceptable timespan. Davis athletics has had to operate with a something-for-nothing mindset for many decades. It arguably took us 30 years to move from D2. Hawkins was able to kickstart things (more than a decade late from the FCS move) from a facilities standpoint.

Things are getting better. We need to continue employing motivated, passionate folks or things get stagnant fast in Davis.

I haven't been to many campuses, but we have to be a top-15 FCS stadium, and top-5 athletic performance facility.

I’m happy Coach Plough gave the admin a bit of a push last season in the playoffs. The more successful Davis is, the more it pushes the admin to get their stuff together.

They definitely need to improve on their marketing and game day experience.

We have nice and adequate facilities now. There are a lot of really nice FCS stadiums / facilities all over the country.

this is a really interesting clip. Again, it really does seem like a matter of when not if. I like our position. We play in the FCS, continue to have a great chance to win a national title, don’t rush joining, working up our facilities and funding and then approach our already committed conference and say “hey! We’re ready!” I know she says the MW is not required to choose Davis (but they must talk to Davis before adding any other FCS team), but the comments about having a good faith, serious conversation when they feel Davis is “ready” as she puts it mixed with her stuff about the sac market, etc seemed notable.

She commented also that they chose Davis because of its resources, size and academic background. I have heard the conference repeat again and again how Davis is committed to meeting the MW when it comes to funding support.

Very impressive that an FCS school moving up to FBS makes their new FBS conference better